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Forum : Television & Pop Culture
Author Topic:   Sopranos Dead Pool
johnny anonymous
posted April 07 2007 02:17 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for johnny anonymous  Edit This Message   Permalink for this message  
Ever since the last season of Buffy (or Oz, whichever came first), Red and I have played dead pools, picking characters from shows that, during their last episodes, were likely to not survive through the closing credits of the last show.

While I haven't watched the Sopranos for over 1.5 seasons now, it seems like too great an opportunity to play another such game.

So, everyone is invited. It pains me to do this in a paper-based format (well, Word doc format), but it only took me 10 minutes to set up thanks to the nice layout provided on the HBO website. There's probably a dead pool engine somewhere in the world...maybe next time.

Anyhow, if you want to play, do the following:


  1. Download this word file: HBO Sopranos Dead Pool

  2. From the 18 characters in the doc, type the world "dead" next to the ones who you will bite it by season's end.

  3. Put your alias at the top of the document.

  4. Post them here.

Since it is late in the week now, let's make the deadline Wednesday next week (the first week will be a gimme for everyone). I think that makes it 11 April. Of course, since there aren't any prizes, I don't really care if you somehow find a way to cheat.

edited by johnny anonymous on April 13 2007 at 03:02 PM.

Peanut
posted April 07 2007 02:42 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Peanut  Edit This Message   Click Here to Email Peanut     Permalink for this message  
Hmmmm.. some guesses for folks who'll meet a grisly end:

* Phil Leotardo
* Christophuh
* One of the guys in the red shirts...

(But, for me, the $10,000 question will be what happens to AJ. I don't for a minute think Chase will kill off Tony.)

Putumayo
posted April 07 2007 08:05 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Putumayo  Edit This Message   Permalink for this message  
I'll have to go with Christopher, Paulie, Tony and AJ.

Are there any Apriles left? One of them seems to die every season.

johnny anonymous
posted April 08 2007 05:20 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for johnny anonymous  Edit This Message   Permalink for this message  
I'll guess:

Christopher
AJ
Johnny Sack
Janice
Phil Leotardo

Keevan
posted April 08 2007 05:33 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Keevan  Edit This Message   Click Here to Email Keevan     Permalink for this message  
AJ
Phil Leotardo
Junior Soprano
johnny sack
paulie walnuts
artie AND charmein bucco

Peanut
posted April 08 2007 07:23 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Peanut  Edit This Message   Click Here to Email Peanut     Permalink for this message  
Janice?! I'd actually be sorry to see her go...one of my favorite villainesses ever. I missed her last season.

Duh! (smacks head) I think Junior for sure, too, but Keevan called it first.

1.5 more hours!!

TyroneShuz
posted April 08 2007 08:47 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for TyroneShuz  Edit This Message   Click Here to Email TyroneShuz     Permalink for this message  
Corrado "Jr" Soprano
Paulie Walnuts
Johnny Sacrimony
Hesh Rabkin
Phil Leotardo
Tony Soprano

Demeter
posted April 10 2007 10:47 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Demeter  Edit This Message   Click Here to Email Demeter     Permalink for this message  
I think Uncle Junior will probably die of natural causes. Either that or a freak accident. But he will not be murdered.

I don't think they'll kill off Tony or Carmela. Actually, I'm not so sure about Carmella, but I think there would be a major outcry if Tony were killed. (All the more reason to do it, but I don't think they will.)

Christofuh ... dang. He could die of an overdose. And he isn't what you call bright. 50/50 he kicks the bucket.

If Bobby Baccala dies it will be because Janice killed him.

But I wonder what's gonna happen to AJ's new girlfriend?

Keevan
posted May 07 2007 01:06 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Keevan  Edit This Message   Click Here to Email Keevan     Permalink for this message  
Anybody get Tim Daly's JT character? that was out there!

Peanut
posted May 07 2007 04:26 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Peanut  Edit This Message   Click Here to Email Peanut     Permalink for this message  
Yeah, what was it all about? My guess is just to remind us that Christophuh is still an evil guy, suburban manse and all.

We think he's angling to go state's witness.

Peanut
posted May 13 2007 10:58 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Peanut  Edit This Message   Click Here to Email Peanut     Permalink for this message  
Well.

One down, one to go...

Sort of shocking, how not-dramatic it was, really...

Keevan
posted May 14 2007 01:00 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Keevan  Edit This Message   Click Here to Email Keevan     Permalink for this message  
I actually really dug this episode. A bit suprising and out of the blue, and it kinda undercuts the Paulie/Christopher tension, but actually a really tight interesting provocative hour. Subtle, insofar as there are no "real" whackings, but still deadly and powerful.

It reminds me how much I'll miss this show in three weeks. I've already decided I'm cancelling HBO when Sopranos goes off the air. I don't watch it for anything but the sopranos now. and if there were any new series that were interesting, i can netflix the DVD's later...

edited by Keevan on May 14 2007 at 12:32 PM.

Peanut
posted May 14 2007 12:41 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Peanut  Edit This Message   Click Here to Email Peanut     Permalink for this message  
Yeah, I liked it too. I just always thought Chrissie would go out in a blaze of glory, but this was a whimper...which just goes to show you how these guys always keep you guessing.

Some interesting parallels: Last time Tony was in a car wreck, it was with Adriana, with whom he'd been doing (guess what) coke. You gotta love the writers on this show.

edited by Peanut on May 14 2007 at 12:42 PM.

Keevan
posted June 03 2007 07:17 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Keevan  Edit This Message   Click Here to Email Keevan     Permalink for this message  
high body count alert! tonight is supposed to be bloody.

Demeter
posted June 03 2007 10:03 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Demeter  Edit This Message   Click Here to Email Demeter     Permalink for this message  
Oops. Wrong on one count.

Redhead
posted June 03 2007 10:17 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Redhead  Edit This Message   Click Here to Email Redhead     Permalink for this message  
Sheesh. I had one glass of wine while watching tonight's episode; I think I'm going to need a whole damn bottle to get through next Sunday night. I should probably just take next Monday off from work now ...

Keevan
posted June 03 2007 10:22 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Keevan  Edit This Message   Click Here to Email Keevan     Permalink for this message  
well, that was both better than expected, but at the same time a bit odd. i guess that is why i still like the show.

melfi firing tony was closure, but i guess a bit unanswered.

as soon as bobby was playing with his trains and they did the train montage, i knew he was screwed.

the thought of junior in a state institution...

and the feds actually warning tony about the impending order of doom from NY.

and tony going to bed with his gun...

lots of good set up -- i hope next week resolves this show suitably...

Keevan
posted June 03 2007 10:23 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Keevan  Edit This Message   Click Here to Email Keevan     Permalink for this message  
and i suck at the dead pool. :*(

Peanut
posted June 03 2007 11:21 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Peanut  Edit This Message   Click Here to Email Peanut     Permalink for this message  
Anybody else notice Tony literally went to the mattresses at the end there? The last couple episodes have been chock full of Godfather references...(the restaurant where Tony beats up Coco looks exactly like the one where Michael executes his first hit...)

Quest
posted June 04 2007 10:21 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Quest  Edit This Message   Click Here to Email Quest     Permalink for this message  
Its hard to say what will happen.
Phil won't win. Either Tony wins the war, with casualties (already apparent in 2nd to last episode) or they all lose.

Peanut
posted June 07 2007 12:43 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Peanut  Edit This Message   Click Here to Email Peanut     Permalink for this message  
Anybody notice the cardboard cutout of Sil in the living room at the safehouse? WTF?

Demeter
posted June 07 2007 03:05 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Demeter  Edit This Message   Click Here to Email Demeter     Permalink for this message  
I've only seen the current episode (or any episode, really) once so I didn't notice the cutout. It must have gone by pretty fast. Haven't seen The Godfather but once, either, so comparisons are out of the question for me.

I always thought drugs would have something to do with C's demise but, as much sense as it makes now, never thought he would be killed because his drug habit made him a liability, and much less that he would be killed by the big T himself. It makes me wonder if he'd still be alive (well, at least not murdered -- death by overdose or stupidity cannot be ruled out) if not for the accident, even if his relapse had been known.

I feel bad about Bobby. If there was such a thing as innocence among Tony's men, I think he had it.

Silvio is still alive, even if just barely. I think it's still a tossup whether he will make it or not. I would have preferred they shot Paulie, though. He is the most likely to turn if the chips go down, I think, plus I liked Silvio.

I am letting the final tally ride because it could go either way. And this is why we watch, in any case. It's no fun to watch a predictable show.

Redhead
posted June 07 2007 03:34 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Redhead  Edit This Message   Click Here to Email Redhead     Permalink for this message  
The cutout: I can't find the link, Nut, but someone on the TWoP board saw an article where the writers explained that the house where the guys were holed up was used to store stuff when the guys weren't using it as a hideout, and the Sil cutout was a Bada Bing promo item. The writers wanted Sil to have some kind of presence in that scene. *sniff*

"I feel bad about Bobby. If there was such a thing as innocence among Tony's men, I think he had it."

Me too. Yes, I know he was a crook and a murderer, but he was one of the only guys on the show I wouldn't be afraid to run into in a dark alley.

And I don't even know why I care at this point, but I really don't want Paulie to be a traitor, either by ratting to the FBI or by selling out to NY. I know that if anyone in Tony's crew deserves a messy, violent death, it's him, and yet I'd like to see *someone* from the old guard still alive and standing by Tony at the end. Weird, huh?

As for the final episode, I have the feeling that Phil's going to die in the first five or ten minutes of the show, and the rest of the show is going to be about something entirely separate from the NJ/NY war. David Chase almost never gives the audience what they're expecting to see, so this should be interesting. Hopefully I won't be watching the entire episode peeping through my fingers like I did with "The Blue Comet."

edited by Redhead on June 07 2007 at 03:37 PM.

edited by Redhead on June 07 2007 at 03:40 PM.

Peanut
posted June 07 2007 06:34 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Peanut  Edit This Message   Click Here to Email Peanut     Permalink for this message  
I actually did run into Steven Schirripa on the street in NYC one time. He was on his phone, or I'm sure I'd have been tempted to babble incoherently towards him.

Something's definitely up with Paulie, tho. Didja notice all the emphasis on similar white shoes of the type Paulie wears all through last week's episode? I can't believe that would be a coincidence.

Three more days! Thanks for the info on the Silvio thing, Red. It's always good to see you around here. I've been checking in on your blog occasionally, also...

edited by Peanut on June 07 2007 at 06:34 PM.

Demeter
posted June 07 2007 08:05 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Demeter  Edit This Message   Click Here to Email Demeter     Permalink for this message  
Nut, you seem to watch the show more than once, tell me: when Tony is waiting to see Dr Melfi and he rips out the page, Dr Melfi hadn't come out of her office yet, right? I mean, I didn't see her do it. But she knows Tony tore out that page. How?

I'm rather surprised that Dr Melfi copped an attitude with Tony, though. I've always thought her manner was very professional and ethical, but she was actually baiting him.

Does anyone know if the report she read has any basis in reality? Not in the sense that what it says is true, but that an equivalent study was actually done.

DSF
posted June 08 2007 11:54 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for DSF  Edit This Message   Click Here to Email DSF     Permalink for this message  
A more elaborate Soprano's Final Episode pool.

Keevan
posted June 08 2007 12:39 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Keevan  Edit This Message   Click Here to Email Keevan     Permalink for this message  
LOL. Way too complicated. Funny and detailed. But too complicated.

Peanut
posted June 08 2007 03:02 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Peanut  Edit This Message   Click Here to Email Peanut     Permalink for this message  
I couldn't get it to load. Nice graphpaper background, though.

De, I really don't know. She must have been standing in the doorway for a minute.

Demeter
posted June 08 2007 05:41 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Demeter  Edit This Message   Click Here to Email Demeter     Permalink for this message  
I found out that Samenow and Yochelson are real, and that the report is real, but it is not recent. In fact, it is 30 years old.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,278498,00.html

But I've been reading up on the definition of sociopath (and psychopath) and, I dunno, I don't think Tony qualifies. Yes, he is a criminal, he is a murderer. No doubt about that. But socio/psychopaths don't have feelings, they have no remorse, no conscience and, as bad as Tony is, I don't think this is true of him. It may actually make him a worse monster, if you think of it, to know that he does these things with the full knowledge that they are wrong, and that he feels remorse but squashes it. It seems to me that he was conflicted about killing Christopher and, in the case of his cousin, Tony Blundetto, he wouldn't have given a shit if Phil tortured and killed Tony B. and have taken the job on himself if he didn't care in some sick, twisted way.

Also, Samenow and Yochelson were treating prisoners who weren't really there voluntarily. Under these circumstances, are their findings all that surprising? On the other hand, Tony sought help. Granted, it was not so that he could stop being a criminal, but I think that there has been improvement in his case, even if it does not measure up to Samenow and Yochelson's standards.

What do you think?

Keevan
posted June 08 2007 06:00 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Keevan  Edit This Message   Click Here to Email Keevan     Permalink for this message  
Define sociopath or psychopath as it is presented in the report?

I can think of a number of definitions where Tony would qualify...

Demeter
posted June 08 2007 09:01 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Demeter  Edit This Message   Click Here to Email Demeter     Permalink for this message  
I cannot find any online reference where Samenow and Yochelson define either sociopaths or psychopaths. What they do define is something they call the criminal personality, which Tony does fit.
http://www.criminology.fsu.edu/crimtheory/samenow.htm

Some of their definitions of criminal personality do come awful close to descriptions or socio/psychopaths, though.

The most common definition of a sociopath:

Sociopaths are characterized by a disregard for social obligation and a lack of concern for the feelings of others. They display pathological egocentricity, shallow emotions, lack of insight, poor control of impulsiveness (including a low tolerance for frustration and a low threshold for discharge of aggression), irresponsibility, a lack of empathy for other human beings and of remorse, anxiety or guilt in relation to his/her antisocial behavior. They are usually callous, manipulative individuals, incapable of lasting friendship and of love. They shamelessly lie, cheat, steal, abuse, neglect their relatives and families, and endanger themselves and other people in a reckless manner. Hare characterizes them as "intraspecies predators who use charm, manipulation, intimidation, and violence to control others and to satisfy their own selfish needs. Lacking in conscience and in feelings for others, they cold-bloodedly take what they want and do as they please, violating social norms and expectations without the slightest sense of guilt or regret."
http://www.cerebromente.org.br/n07/doencas/index.html

More here:
http://www.psychiatrictimes.com/p960239.html
http://faculty.ncwc.edu/toconnor/428/428lect16.htm

Momma Wang
posted June 10 2007 08:12 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Momma Wang  Edit This Message   Permalink for this message  
See also: Mr. Wang

(sorry, couldn't resist)

Demeter
posted June 10 2007 08:35 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Demeter  Edit This Message   Click Here to Email Demeter     Permalink for this message  
S'okay. So was Mr. Demeter.

Keevan
posted June 10 2007 10:03 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Keevan  Edit This Message   Click Here to Email Keevan     Permalink for this message  
Errr???

Badbill
posted June 10 2007 10:07 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Badbill  Edit This Message   Click Here to Email Badbill     Permalink for this message  
Whisky Tango Foxtrot?

Demeter
posted June 10 2007 10:08 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Demeter  Edit This Message   Click Here to Email Demeter     Permalink for this message  
I want my money back

Keevan
posted June 10 2007 10:12 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Keevan  Edit This Message   Click Here to Email Keevan     Permalink for this message  
The series finale was... completely unfinished. I ask again... err?? what was that?

Demeter
posted June 10 2007 11:35 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Demeter  Edit This Message   Click Here to Email Demeter     Permalink for this message  
K. I've had time to think and surf a bit. General outrage at the way the show ended, but ... here's a plausible reason for it:

Tony is dead. That's why the screen went black. The story ended when he did.

Until someone corners David Chase and beats the truth out of him, I think that's what I'll kinda believe.

Momma Wang
posted June 11 2007 09:23 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Momma Wang  Edit This Message   Permalink for this message  
I think that was it too. Tony was shot, and maybe the whole family. There was just nothingness at the end.

DSF
posted June 11 2007 11:56 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for DSF  Edit This Message   Click Here to Email DSF     Permalink for this message  
Angry Sopranos fans crash the HBO site after watching the series finale.

Keevan
posted June 11 2007 11:59 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Keevan  Edit This Message   Click Here to Email Keevan     Permalink for this message  
Well, I can accept that interpretation, it at least gives you a mental picture/belief of closure. But after the buzz of the non-ending, i'm more in the camp that that was the point. Nothing. Continuation. No resolution. The tension and foreboding and foreshadowing were just there to ratchet up the hope that there WOULD be something explosive...but it only effectively portrayed what life must be like in that existance.

And after a night sleeping on it, I'm more ok with it. Not happy, as I would have liked SOME resolution. Especially with rumours of a Sopranos movie someday. Open-ended endings allow for more possibilities...

Demeter
posted June 11 2007 03:33 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Demeter  Edit This Message   Click Here to Email Demeter     Permalink for this message  
What I've heard (read) is that IF there is a Soprano's movie (Chase says there isn't one planned, but that who knows what he could decide in the future) it will be a prequel, not a sequel. So we don't get to find out what really happens.

Of course, none of the cast we are used to would be in the prequel, since people don't get hired to play themselves at a younger age. IMO, at least half of the reason we are involved with the Sopranos has to do with the actors themselves, the way they played their characters, and that a prequel -- unless it was incredibly well made with superb actors -- probably would tank.

BTW, Gandolfini has said he's done playing Tony. Of course, not getting much of anything to do in the future might change his mind. He says he doesn't want to play tough guys anymore, that he's tired.

Redhead
posted June 11 2007 09:36 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Redhead  Edit This Message   Click Here to Email Redhead     Permalink for this message  
I feel like even more of an oddball than usual, because I liked the episode on first viewing and liked it even more after a rewatch tonight. (The vitriol on Television Without Pity after the show ended last night was a sight to behold.) I really enjoyed the final scenes Tony had with Paulie, Sil, Janice, and especially Uncle Jun.

But I'm never going to forgive David Chase for putting that goddamn Journey song in my head for the last day. GAH! Make it stop!

Phaedrus
posted June 11 2007 10:29 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Phaedrus  Edit This Message   Click Here to Email Phaedrus     Permalink for this message  
I'm a big fan of that ending. I love the way it gave you all sorts of hints of dread and foreboding that actually might not have had anything to do with dread or foreboding at all.

Keevan
posted June 12 2007 10:30 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Keevan  Edit This Message   Click Here to Email Keevan     Permalink for this message  
I rewatched last night and found the ending more satisfying. There is sufficient closure in a lot of the sub-conversations and visits Tony has. there is some semblence of family coming together. But there IS that sense of dread and forboding -- real or otherwise -- that has to come with that life. NY family issues are resolved. It may not be the happiest, wrapped up, mob war, or otherwiese that people had hoped for. But it does seem complete upon another viewing.

Now if LOST does something as equally nebulous...

Demeter
posted June 12 2007 12:36 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Demeter  Edit This Message   Click Here to Email Demeter     Permalink for this message  
When my daughter was around 2 yrs old, I wanted to buy a handgun, but I was conflicted about it. I had read reports that people who had guns but had never used one were more likely to be killed by their own gun.

So, anyway, once night I dreamt that I bought a gun, and that the person who sold it to me gave me the aforementioned warning before they handed it over. I said not to worry, that it wouldn't come out unless it was an emergency. The scene switches to me and my kid walking along a sidewalk, when someone rushes up to me, opens my purse and says "I told you not to buy a gun" and shoots me in the head. Everything went black. I could hear or see nothing, but I could still think. And what I was thinking was "Oh, my god, Linda saw this. Who is going to take care of her now?" I woke up and rushed into my daughter's room. I never considered buying a gun again, and I can remember the dream as clearly as the night I had it, even 30 years later.

So ... after enough time to think about it, I'm still going with the "Tony is dead" angle. Not that my dream means I am right, but that I think there is a posibility that death=nothing (black) may be a part of the collective unconscious and, who knows, it might have been Chase's dream too.

If the scene had faded to black I don't think I'd have come to the same conclusion. It was the abruptness of the ending that did it.

I was one of those people who thought my cable had gone out at the worst possible moment and was still sitting there with my mouth open when the credits started to roll. Naughty, naughty Chase!

All things considered, in retrospect I think it was well done, most especially if the scenario I envisioned is true.

Keevan
posted June 12 2007 03:57 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Keevan  Edit This Message   Click Here to Email Keevan     Permalink for this message  
I like what you have to say, Demeter -- and the fact there can be multipe interpretations of it means (to me) that it is an even more powerful ending.

Peanut
posted June 12 2007 04:52 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Peanut  Edit This Message   Click Here to Email Peanut     Permalink for this message  
I loved it, too. Sorry, would have weighed in before now, but every message board I frequent has a Sopranos thread at the moment and I kinda got sidetracked.

(also, packing for Bonnaroo...two! more! days! )

Quest
posted June 12 2007 10:21 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Quest  Edit This Message   Click Here to Email Quest     Permalink for this message  
The real ending was never shown! because Meadow took so long to parallel park

Demeter
posted June 12 2007 11:17 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Demeter  Edit This Message   Click Here to Email Demeter     Permalink for this message  
I think that we have here is clearly a case of Quantum Sopranos,
aka Schrödinger's Mobster.

Keevan
posted June 13 2007 12:58 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Keevan  Edit This Message   Click Here to Email Keevan     Permalink for this message  
or

DSF
posted June 15 2007 12:31 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for DSF  Edit This Message   Click Here to Email DSF     Permalink for this message  
Alternate Sopranos Ending ... the ending HBO didn't want you to see.

DSF
posted June 15 2007 01:26 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for DSF  Edit This Message   Click Here to Email DSF     Permalink for this message  
ignore this

Peanut
posted June 18 2007 03:29 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Peanut  Edit This Message   Click Here to Email Peanut     Permalink for this message  
Awesome analysis of final episode:
http://www.bobharris.com/content/view/1406/1/

Redhead
posted June 18 2007 06:07 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Redhead  Edit This Message   Click Here to Email Redhead     Permalink for this message  
Wow. I've been skeptical about the "Tony gets whacked" interpretation of the ending, but that's about as convincing an argument as I've seen for it.

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